Breaking down the free exercise clause, the establishment clause, and the anti-Shariah movement with Dahlia Taha from the Muslim Public Affairs Council
It seems to me it's another one of those cases in which Republicans are seeking a "solution" for a problem that doesn't exist, just to arouse MAGA against Muslims & promote Christian nationalism, or what I consider a more accurate term, christofascism. It's like fearnongering about Communists taking over America (they practically don't exist in the US today, & never were much of an influence), trans in sports (rare) or trans mass murderers or immigrant criminals/rapists/murderers (both a lower percentage within those populations than among native-born whites). White supremacists, billionaire autocrats, theocrats & kleptocrats, & fascists of all kinds (christofascists, technofascists, russofascists, republofascists) are the real danger to our nation.
AS a committed but un-activist atheist (raised Presbyterian) and a browser among other religions. I have become a committed supporter of the 1st amendment. None of us now living, except for the more primitive sects stuck in the centuries before the enlightenment, have any experience of the violent religious divisions plaguing Europe nor any understanding of how those divisions followed the refugee/settlers who landed in the New World, convinced they had escaped the old world and that their particular sect could flourish unimpeded in the new. Not even 100 years on they were replicating the power struggles tearing Europe to shreds. By the time the Constitution was being drafted all that sturm and drang looked very like it could tear the new nation to shreds as well.
Which is why the founders added the remedy of the first Amendment. Strife did not cease, it just went underground and bubbled and festered over the centuries because the religious wars were not really about religion they were about who got to hold the power. Prior to universal education, few people except the elite, had any access to education, but for the protestant religions, the ability to read the bible was imperative and somehow the settlers, created a rickety system of Sunday school to enable people to learn to "read" (memorize) selected bible verses. The earliest public schools ran largely on religion and the Bible or "Primers", heavily dependent on biblical teaching, were the chief instruments of literacy.
The effects of this history have never been erased. Surges of religiosity have erupted periodically . often spurred by self proclaimed prophets with "revival" meetings providing a thrilling form of free entertainment. Increasingly over the decades religion has become entangled in politics with the ulterior motive of advancing and capturing secular power. We are enduring another such surge, aided and abetted by mass media, again with the aim of accumulating wealth and power. It is an unfortunate mental quirk apparently unique to homo sapiens.
Absolutely - the belief that breaking the rules never has negative consequences for everyone, very unfortunately, remains one of humanity's dumbest blind spots.
You mentioned that the free exercise clause applies to atheists and nonbelievers as well. I’m curious how that would play out in practical terms since there’s nothing to practice.
Simple. It bans laws requiring people to go to worship services, as were passed in past state legislatures. It bans schools from requiring children to pray. Free exercise means free to worship or not worship without government oppression.
I have a question regarding how Article 2 Section 4 would work exactly ? I thought it would remove Pres, VP and all appt civil officers. A person said that it would be up to Vance to decide and I said no because he too would be impeached and removed. Can you settle this please ?
I have heard it both ways. That impeaching the President using Article II, Section 4 removes all members of his regime, which is how I read it & most people I've seen have been saying, but when I asserted that, someone else who seemed so sure of himself adamantly claimed that impeaching the President this way applies to the president only, not other members of his administration, & you' have to impeach each member individually. I know that the 25th applies only to the President, & isn't necessarily final or permanent, which is why I've always preferred Article II, Section 4 (the way I interpret it) over the 25th. I don't want Vance to automatically become President. Now it may mean that Mike Johnson slips in instead, so we could make attempts to expel him (there should be many legitimate reasons to do that, but would anyone have the gumption?)), or wait until Democrats outnumber Republicans in the House (we may not have the luxury to wait).
Good question. Getting The Fapweasel (Trump) impeached and convicted isn’t quite enough unless we put all of his cronies (i.e. his cabinet) in jail, as well.
It seems to me it's another one of those cases in which Republicans are seeking a "solution" for a problem that doesn't exist, just to arouse MAGA against Muslims & promote Christian nationalism, or what I consider a more accurate term, christofascism. It's like fearnongering about Communists taking over America (they practically don't exist in the US today, & never were much of an influence), trans in sports (rare) or trans mass murderers or immigrant criminals/rapists/murderers (both a lower percentage within those populations than among native-born whites). White supremacists, billionaire autocrats, theocrats & kleptocrats, & fascists of all kinds (christofascists, technofascists, russofascists, republofascists) are the real danger to our nation.
AS a committed but un-activist atheist (raised Presbyterian) and a browser among other religions. I have become a committed supporter of the 1st amendment. None of us now living, except for the more primitive sects stuck in the centuries before the enlightenment, have any experience of the violent religious divisions plaguing Europe nor any understanding of how those divisions followed the refugee/settlers who landed in the New World, convinced they had escaped the old world and that their particular sect could flourish unimpeded in the new. Not even 100 years on they were replicating the power struggles tearing Europe to shreds. By the time the Constitution was being drafted all that sturm and drang looked very like it could tear the new nation to shreds as well.
Which is why the founders added the remedy of the first Amendment. Strife did not cease, it just went underground and bubbled and festered over the centuries because the religious wars were not really about religion they were about who got to hold the power. Prior to universal education, few people except the elite, had any access to education, but for the protestant religions, the ability to read the bible was imperative and somehow the settlers, created a rickety system of Sunday school to enable people to learn to "read" (memorize) selected bible verses. The earliest public schools ran largely on religion and the Bible or "Primers", heavily dependent on biblical teaching, were the chief instruments of literacy.
The effects of this history have never been erased. Surges of religiosity have erupted periodically . often spurred by self proclaimed prophets with "revival" meetings providing a thrilling form of free entertainment. Increasingly over the decades religion has become entangled in politics with the ulterior motive of advancing and capturing secular power. We are enduring another such surge, aided and abetted by mass media, again with the aim of accumulating wealth and power. It is an unfortunate mental quirk apparently unique to homo sapiens.
Just remember it is all about wealth and POWER.
Absolutely - the belief that breaking the rules never has negative consequences for everyone, very unfortunately, remains one of humanity's dumbest blind spots.
You mentioned that the free exercise clause applies to atheists and nonbelievers as well. I’m curious how that would play out in practical terms since there’s nothing to practice.
Simple. It bans laws requiring people to go to worship services, as were passed in past state legislatures. It bans schools from requiring children to pray. Free exercise means free to worship or not worship without government oppression.
Got it. Thanks for explaining.
I have a question regarding how Article 2 Section 4 would work exactly ? I thought it would remove Pres, VP and all appt civil officers. A person said that it would be up to Vance to decide and I said no because he too would be impeached and removed. Can you settle this please ?
I have heard it both ways. That impeaching the President using Article II, Section 4 removes all members of his regime, which is how I read it & most people I've seen have been saying, but when I asserted that, someone else who seemed so sure of himself adamantly claimed that impeaching the President this way applies to the president only, not other members of his administration, & you' have to impeach each member individually. I know that the 25th applies only to the President, & isn't necessarily final or permanent, which is why I've always preferred Article II, Section 4 (the way I interpret it) over the 25th. I don't want Vance to automatically become President. Now it may mean that Mike Johnson slips in instead, so we could make attempts to expel him (there should be many legitimate reasons to do that, but would anyone have the gumption?)), or wait until Democrats outnumber Republicans in the House (we may not have the luxury to wait).
Good question. Getting The Fapweasel (Trump) impeached and convicted isn’t quite enough unless we put all of his cronies (i.e. his cabinet) in jail, as well.
Amen