I want to share, for purpose of review and evaluation, a set of comments which I have posted in the comments section of Civil Discourse, provided by Joyce Vance [thank you, again, Ms Vance!!]
I only share this, because we Americans have to work together to get an improved understanding of our Constitution and our agency within it to better govern our selves, to better reflect and protect and make us all equally within the force of the self-governance tool we have with this very malleable tool, the Constitution.
So what is shared is in re 'Civil Discourse, article titled Welcome To South Sudan, by
Joyce Vance, dated May 21 2025, an excellent article.
My comments:
Thank you, Ms Vance. This is a clear and useful assessment, and we as Americans can see the importance of using our own experience to contribute our own experiences and lessons from history to clarify and strengthen the protections for and understanding of the working assumptions for a comprehensive use of due process.
We have to be clear, that is each of us has to make clear our shared and mutual understanding that our constitutional democratic agreement to establish rule of law is an explicit expression of:
'we govern ourselves by together establishing and formalizing this Constitution and these institutions to govern ourselves by'.
We cannot let any authorized governing group or individual twist and abuse the authority that we the people have constitutionally designated and have purposed for inclusive, impartial application of rules of law, and we cannot tolerate conscious choices by any of them to act with contempt to this Constitution and our authorized agency of self-government.
We can see how the decisions of Judge Murphy are anchored in the framework that we have ratified and hold ourselves accountable to under the Constitution.
We have other examples of this sort of judicial exercise of judicial authority which the current, i.e., Trump, Administration is acting in defiance of and acting contemptuously and harmfully in the face of with the clear purposes of abusing Executive Branch constitutional authority.
The Trump agenda is now clear: using Executive Branch authority for unconstitutional and from non-fact-based perspectives for norm-alizing autocratic executive habits of exercise of powers and for establishing procedure and rationale based not on fact and not within constitutional rule of law but on selfish and/or ideological, often fascist, views, terms and conditions.
To the extent Americans individually and in concert publicly provide and give public political agency to the narratives of constitutional and humane political will and capacity toward and in support of respecting and using the Constitution for the normative and the legal performance of furthering self-governance, to that extent we can hold the line effectively, if not perfectly, to resist these autocratic and often fascist exertions and to prevent most harms to real people in America.
Especially in matters such as application, every day application of norms e.g., due process under and by means of law, we must be impartial and inclusive. We must also be aware that to err on the side of caution by means of expansive, not reductive, application of due process, we affirm its human and humane purpose in society and its essential character in democratic society. We govern ourselves; to that extent we create, perpetuate and amend together, using rules we have inclusively agreed on and live within; to that extent to do other than exert full and impartial due process is to undermine its application for any of, for any 'some' of us, and for who knows how sweepingly, irrationally, and remorselessly to most under circumstances such as those we have today, when abuse of power is the intention and goal of members of our government and the intended purpose of some Americans who are their supporters.
Reply (1)
bob
my own addendum to the above...
So, this is an occasion for sincerity and honesty with each other, and we have to support the many people, such as the above mentioned judges, because together and without each other, other people like Trump, JD Vance, Pam Bondi, ... , people such as the latter three will simply continue to loosely band together and choose ways to steam-roll people and impartial norms of justice and constitutional governance as they pursue vanquishing whatever feared entities and views keep them up at night, and they will hurt people and hurt as many people as they deem necessary.
Our humane and normative narratives that we can sincerely and honestly adhere to together are our shared guides. In this sense, the message from the Supreme Court majority in a recent, just days-old decision, presents us all with the question, 'what is real and effective due process' in any given set of circumstances?
I ask myself what, if I find myself suddenly confronted with being politically de-legitimatized by this Administration of some other some political faction, what constitutes impartial and effective tools and procedures for giving public scrutiny and personal agency to this formal de-legitimization? How can I be given time and resources to factually and legally rebut and set aside the claims against me being used for my political de-legitimization and political exclusion/extraction?
As an offering for shared consideration, prompt and beginning consideration, there is an easily obtained discussion within the documents at Carnegie/LII:
"While there is no definitive list of the "required procedures" that due process requires, Judge Henry Friendly generated a list that remains highly influential, as to both content and relative priority:
An unbiased tribunal.
Notice of the proposed action and the grounds asserted for it.
Opportunity to present reasons why the proposed action should not be taken.
The right to present evidence, including the right to call witnesses.
The right to know opposing evidence.
The right to cross-examine adverse witnesses.
A decision based exclusively on the evidence presented.
Opportunity to be represented by counsel.
Requirement that the tribunal prepare a record of the evidence presented.
Requirement that the tribunal prepare written findings of fact and reasons for its decision.
This is not a list of procedures which are required to prove due process, but rather a list of the kinds of procedures that might be claimed in a "due process" argument, ..."
End of the Carnegie/LII material.
We must see, acknowledge and remember how arbitrary, capricious, and harmful, both in intent and consequence, any effort can in fact be to remove political legitimacy of any person or group in America. Suggestions otherwise and/or abuse of governmental authority to achieve this sort of de-legitimization and removal can only be confronted by formal resistance.
Let's put our sense of shared future and our aspirations on the table, publicly, and let's discuss what we want for ourselves, our children, our families, our friends, and in a genuinely inclusive sense our neighbors in America. It is up to us to start and to bring to an effective agreement point this discussion; our Constitution provides the aspirational framework that makes us and keeps us 'all in' for this AND that then allows us to practice amendment and improvement as we move together forward, again aspirationally and within this constitutional framework.
I’m impressed Qasim, You replied to many of readers comments, Not many people do that, Thank you for your contribution here on Substack, Find your articles informative & helpful, Are you on Blue sky or other platforms?
The entire for profit health hedge fund monopoly system is a living breathing genocidal monster. I hate to say it - but everyone who works for them in whatever capacity, is a viral cog in their juggernaut, as mentally diseased as their boards, investors, and executive class.
I am not sure even Dante could have imagined a circle of HELL deep and bad enough for their evil. We have probably reached a stage on this planet where we need another commandment "Thou shalt give no succor to the in-human greed of the parasites devouring life on earth."
You will not like this comment. But passive agendas aren’t working. They thumb their noses at it. I’m not a pascifist for sure. Idealism isn’t working no matter what you are presenting because we are being overwhelmed on every level. Love your thoughts, tolerance at this point is out of the question. I really like what Luigi did. Perhaps saw what you in your disgruntled civility couldn’t see. Only now are you beginning to address it. I expect you to address this comment, which is your right. But I have stated my case, and in looking back, and looking at the present, I have no illusions as to where we are. Peace be with you.
Capitalist Narcissistic Greed; they only see numbers. They don’t see humans; like Jeff Bezos’ potentially sanctioned Teak Deck Yacht he gallantly displayed at Cannes while that other claimed some environmental award for something. Both instances have killed many and will kill many more.
Definitely; did 12 years in EMS—after the first couple years; I began hoping privatization would end. But now, there’s areas with privatized fire as well. Which maybe the progression for rural while urban public fire may take on more EMS transport roles as response times become inadequate by the privatized EMS.
But the golden dome will be viagra to Musk and the MIC. Meanwhile under the guize of protecting us from pie in the sky missiles from hell who knows where social programs being cut will cost many Americans much misery and 100 of thousands unnecessary deaths. Not to mention bankruptcies. But not to worry cause the gold3n dome has your back.
Yes, yes, yes!!! I've been saying this for years! The corpse doesn't care if it was killed by a bullet or a spreadsheet. Still dead. So-called health insurance companies tried to kill my husband. Social Security Disability was the last provider standing after years of litigation. HELL companies all vanished after charging us (and Husband's employer) for years for "coverage."
And now the Guardian is reporting that United Healthcare paid nursing homes to prevent residents from being transferred to the hospital when they were sick. Yes, healthcare should be removed from their name. How do these people live with themselves with such greed and evil in their hearts?
First, thank you for your insightful and hard-hitting articles. I was not aware until reading today's article that you ran against Rob Wittman—how I wish you had won! Wittman is my House rep, and he does nothing for his constituents that I can discern. I write to my Congressional reps often, and without exception, each of Wittman's replies has been an automatically generated response that did nothing to address the issue(s) about which I had written. I'll be moving soon and he will no longer represent me, but I would still love to see you take his place.
Yep, back in 2020. He's just a terrible and cowardly human being in general. Not the least of which includes him telling everyone that COVID was no big deal, then buying stock in a company working on anti-COVID treatment.
White men in charge, love underpaid and free labor. Making the elderly the disabled the sick WORK for healthcare to support profits and capitalism, is plain evil…
Concerning the Big, Beautiful, Budget, there is a hidden but deadly item: the Republicans have slipped in a provision that would allow Trump to ignore every TRO or injunction that has already been issued against the administration!
PLEASE POST THIS FAR AND WIDE. IF THE CONGRESS GIVES TRUMP LEGAL PERMISSION TO IGNORE THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM WE ARE IN BIGGER TROUBLE THAN WE KNOW.
Right on.
I want to share, for purpose of review and evaluation, a set of comments which I have posted in the comments section of Civil Discourse, provided by Joyce Vance [thank you, again, Ms Vance!!]
I only share this, because we Americans have to work together to get an improved understanding of our Constitution and our agency within it to better govern our selves, to better reflect and protect and make us all equally within the force of the self-governance tool we have with this very malleable tool, the Constitution.
So what is shared is in re 'Civil Discourse, article titled Welcome To South Sudan, by
Joyce Vance, dated May 21 2025, an excellent article.
My comments:
Thank you, Ms Vance. This is a clear and useful assessment, and we as Americans can see the importance of using our own experience to contribute our own experiences and lessons from history to clarify and strengthen the protections for and understanding of the working assumptions for a comprehensive use of due process.
We have to be clear, that is each of us has to make clear our shared and mutual understanding that our constitutional democratic agreement to establish rule of law is an explicit expression of:
'we govern ourselves by together establishing and formalizing this Constitution and these institutions to govern ourselves by'.
We cannot let any authorized governing group or individual twist and abuse the authority that we the people have constitutionally designated and have purposed for inclusive, impartial application of rules of law, and we cannot tolerate conscious choices by any of them to act with contempt to this Constitution and our authorized agency of self-government.
We can see how the decisions of Judge Murphy are anchored in the framework that we have ratified and hold ourselves accountable to under the Constitution.
We have other examples of this sort of judicial exercise of judicial authority which the current, i.e., Trump, Administration is acting in defiance of and acting contemptuously and harmfully in the face of with the clear purposes of abusing Executive Branch constitutional authority.
The Trump agenda is now clear: using Executive Branch authority for unconstitutional and from non-fact-based perspectives for norm-alizing autocratic executive habits of exercise of powers and for establishing procedure and rationale based not on fact and not within constitutional rule of law but on selfish and/or ideological, often fascist, views, terms and conditions.
To the extent Americans individually and in concert publicly provide and give public political agency to the narratives of constitutional and humane political will and capacity toward and in support of respecting and using the Constitution for the normative and the legal performance of furthering self-governance, to that extent we can hold the line effectively, if not perfectly, to resist these autocratic and often fascist exertions and to prevent most harms to real people in America.
Especially in matters such as application, every day application of norms e.g., due process under and by means of law, we must be impartial and inclusive. We must also be aware that to err on the side of caution by means of expansive, not reductive, application of due process, we affirm its human and humane purpose in society and its essential character in democratic society. We govern ourselves; to that extent we create, perpetuate and amend together, using rules we have inclusively agreed on and live within; to that extent to do other than exert full and impartial due process is to undermine its application for any of, for any 'some' of us, and for who knows how sweepingly, irrationally, and remorselessly to most under circumstances such as those we have today, when abuse of power is the intention and goal of members of our government and the intended purpose of some Americans who are their supporters.
Reply (1)
bob
my own addendum to the above...
So, this is an occasion for sincerity and honesty with each other, and we have to support the many people, such as the above mentioned judges, because together and without each other, other people like Trump, JD Vance, Pam Bondi, ... , people such as the latter three will simply continue to loosely band together and choose ways to steam-roll people and impartial norms of justice and constitutional governance as they pursue vanquishing whatever feared entities and views keep them up at night, and they will hurt people and hurt as many people as they deem necessary.
Our humane and normative narratives that we can sincerely and honestly adhere to together are our shared guides. In this sense, the message from the Supreme Court majority in a recent, just days-old decision, presents us all with the question, 'what is real and effective due process' in any given set of circumstances?
I ask myself what, if I find myself suddenly confronted with being politically de-legitimatized by this Administration of some other some political faction, what constitutes impartial and effective tools and procedures for giving public scrutiny and personal agency to this formal de-legitimization? How can I be given time and resources to factually and legally rebut and set aside the claims against me being used for my political de-legitimization and political exclusion/extraction?
As an offering for shared consideration, prompt and beginning consideration, there is an easily obtained discussion within the documents at Carnegie/LII:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/due_process
"While there is no definitive list of the "required procedures" that due process requires, Judge Henry Friendly generated a list that remains highly influential, as to both content and relative priority:
An unbiased tribunal.
Notice of the proposed action and the grounds asserted for it.
Opportunity to present reasons why the proposed action should not be taken.
The right to present evidence, including the right to call witnesses.
The right to know opposing evidence.
The right to cross-examine adverse witnesses.
A decision based exclusively on the evidence presented.
Opportunity to be represented by counsel.
Requirement that the tribunal prepare a record of the evidence presented.
Requirement that the tribunal prepare written findings of fact and reasons for its decision.
This is not a list of procedures which are required to prove due process, but rather a list of the kinds of procedures that might be claimed in a "due process" argument, ..."
End of the Carnegie/LII material.
We must see, acknowledge and remember how arbitrary, capricious, and harmful, both in intent and consequence, any effort can in fact be to remove political legitimacy of any person or group in America. Suggestions otherwise and/or abuse of governmental authority to achieve this sort of de-legitimization and removal can only be confronted by formal resistance.
Let's put our sense of shared future and our aspirations on the table, publicly, and let's discuss what we want for ourselves, our children, our families, our friends, and in a genuinely inclusive sense our neighbors in America. It is up to us to start and to bring to an effective agreement point this discussion; our Constitution provides the aspirational framework that makes us and keeps us 'all in' for this AND that then allows us to practice amendment and improvement as we move together forward, again aspirationally and within this constitutional framework.
I’m impressed Qasim, You replied to many of readers comments, Not many people do that, Thank you for your contribution here on Substack, Find your articles informative & helpful, Are you on Blue sky or other platforms?
Once again it’s that economy based on greed known as capitalism.
The entire for profit health hedge fund monopoly system is a living breathing genocidal monster. I hate to say it - but everyone who works for them in whatever capacity, is a viral cog in their juggernaut, as mentally diseased as their boards, investors, and executive class.
I am not sure even Dante could have imagined a circle of HELL deep and bad enough for their evil. We have probably reached a stage on this planet where we need another commandment "Thou shalt give no succor to the in-human greed of the parasites devouring life on earth."
HELL corporations…perfect!
You will not like this comment. But passive agendas aren’t working. They thumb their noses at it. I’m not a pascifist for sure. Idealism isn’t working no matter what you are presenting because we are being overwhelmed on every level. Love your thoughts, tolerance at this point is out of the question. I really like what Luigi did. Perhaps saw what you in your disgruntled civility couldn’t see. Only now are you beginning to address it. I expect you to address this comment, which is your right. But I have stated my case, and in looking back, and looking at the present, I have no illusions as to where we are. Peace be with you.
Am I not allowed to post?
Capitalist Narcissistic Greed; they only see numbers. They don’t see humans; like Jeff Bezos’ potentially sanctioned Teak Deck Yacht he gallantly displayed at Cannes while that other claimed some environmental award for something. Both instances have killed many and will kill many more.
That conversation with Kahlil was good!
Thanks for listening to the convo with Kahlil. And yeah, this is why healthcare needs to stop being for profit and start being for people.
Definitely; did 12 years in EMS—after the first couple years; I began hoping privatization would end. But now, there’s areas with privatized fire as well. Which maybe the progression for rural while urban public fire may take on more EMS transport roles as response times become inadequate by the privatized EMS.
But the golden dome will be viagra to Musk and the MIC. Meanwhile under the guize of protecting us from pie in the sky missiles from hell who knows where social programs being cut will cost many Americans much misery and 100 of thousands unnecessary deaths. Not to mention bankruptcies. But not to worry cause the gold3n dome has your back.
Yes, yes, yes!!! I've been saying this for years! The corpse doesn't care if it was killed by a bullet or a spreadsheet. Still dead. So-called health insurance companies tried to kill my husband. Social Security Disability was the last provider standing after years of litigation. HELL companies all vanished after charging us (and Husband's employer) for years for "coverage."
I'm so sorry, Elaine. It truly is reprehensible how soulless and cruel these HELL Corporations are.
And now the Guardian is reporting that United Healthcare paid nursing homes to prevent residents from being transferred to the hospital when they were sick. Yes, healthcare should be removed from their name. How do these people live with themselves with such greed and evil in their hearts?
Beyond reprehensible. How is this not murder?
Thank you, Qasim, for this assessment and these recommendations.
Thank you, also, for the caringacross link.
They're an amazing org. Thank YOU for reading and taking action.
First, thank you for your insightful and hard-hitting articles. I was not aware until reading today's article that you ran against Rob Wittman—how I wish you had won! Wittman is my House rep, and he does nothing for his constituents that I can discern. I write to my Congressional reps often, and without exception, each of Wittman's replies has been an automatically generated response that did nothing to address the issue(s) about which I had written. I'll be moving soon and he will no longer represent me, but I would still love to see you take his place.
Yep, back in 2020. He's just a terrible and cowardly human being in general. Not the least of which includes him telling everyone that COVID was no big deal, then buying stock in a company working on anti-COVID treatment.
White men in charge, love underpaid and free labor. Making the elderly the disabled the sick WORK for healthcare to support profits and capitalism, is plain evil…
Work requirements for occasional healthcare makes little sense. It is just a ploy to remove people from coverage.
Let's not forget, though, that we all contributed to those programs through our work. We've earned those benefits.
Exactly. They not only not work, they backfire. But maybe that cruelty is the point.
Concerning the Big, Beautiful, Budget, there is a hidden but deadly item: the Republicans have slipped in a provision that would allow Trump to ignore every TRO or injunction that has already been issued against the administration!
PLEASE POST THIS FAR AND WIDE. IF THE CONGRESS GIVES TRUMP LEGAL PERMISSION TO IGNORE THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM WE ARE IN BIGGER TROUBLE THAN WE KNOW.
It's flat out authoritarianism.
got a message that the digital world could not verify that I am real. quasim, feel free to contact me personally if you wish.
Thank you for your clear, insightful, and honest perspectives.
I've already called and written my representative (Chuy Garcia). I know he will be voting "NO".
Rep Garcia is a real one, and it's always good to keep encouraging good work.